GCCR Show full post »
Hi...  don't read voltage, check the ohms, or check for ping to earth.. set one lead to earth and other to the ecu output..   the ecu does not have a 12v output, it is just showing 12v because the driver is high/open, it  does not have any current ability.. if that makes sense..
     The ecu is doing as you request when you invert the output.. so if you invert the output and the ecu buzzes to earth, then connect the waterpump, it should work.. if not... you have a wiring issue or a pump issue...     I highly doubt any errors in the code, it is very rare and this is a pretty old/common strategy.
      If the pump works, then invert the output to be correct and start the engine, set the pump to work at 45 degrees and check if the pump works when above this set point.. Also use the ecu to check if the function is issuing a command, you can do this by using the right arrow on the bar Exploring/Parameters, it will bring up a new menu, Exploring Channels... Half way down the page in the filter line type in Water and you will see a channel parameter Water pump, click on your numeric display window then click on this channel and it will be displayed in this window.. When this turns to 1 or ON, your pump should be on.. If not, check again with multimeter if the output is switching to earth.. if it is, then some external issue, if not then there is probably some ecu issue. rare but possible.. if it never switches to on, then there is some setup issue somewhere..  But you must check the software is actually issuing the command..

Beware.. many of these pumps (BMW etc) have a pwm high side driver, so it needs a switch from open circuit to 12v, not open to ground..  This can be achieved by using a 10K pull up resistor, but we will get to this later..   

Quote 0 0
Just checking one of my calibrations.. there is a parameter in the output setup "water pump service time"  by default it is set 50 5600ms..  Now this means that the ecu will sample once every 5600 ms..     Change this value to 10....  

Quote 0 0
Hello, and thanks for taking the trouble to respond. I've carefully followed your instructions and came up with the following outcomes using your method of viewing Pump status and also the actual water temperature (ECT). Note that I'm using a relay to run the pump activated by the PWM output as I'm afraid the pump would draw too much current. The pump is a simple Davies Craig 12v (No controller - tested and working using a simple 12v feed). 

Firstly Water Pump responses and then Resistance / voltage readings at the ECU O/P wires (Pin 6 / PWM2)....

Settings                                                     Status                                                       Result Indicated as      Pin6 Resistance to earth    Pin6 Voltage    Actual Pump Status

Hardware - NORMAL, Threshold 45deg    Engine off, ign ON, Water 20deg          Water Pump = OFF       Open cct                            12v                   Not Working  

Hardware - NORMAL, Threshold >45deg  Engine running, Ign ON, Water 30deg   Water Pump = ON        700ohms                            0.055V              Not Working

Hardware - NORMAL, Threshold >45deg  Engine running, Ign ON, Water 60deg   Water Pump = ON        700ohms                            0.055V             Not Working

Hardware - INVERTED Threshold 45deg    Engine off, ign ON, Water 60deg          Water Pump = OFF        Not measured                Not measured        Not Working  

Hardware - INVERTED Threshold 45deg    Engine running, ign ON, Water 60deg    Water Pump = ON        Not measured                 Not measured       Not Working  

From what I can see, the only thing that changes the status is whether the engine is running or not and in either event that condition has no effect on the ability of the pin to activate the water pump relay.  

Just a thought...how can I alter the PWM Frequency/Duty cycle ? 

Quote 0 0
Hi.. Well it is working....  
   the output is switching..
  Hardware - NORMAL, Threshold 45deg    Engine off, ign ON, Water 20deg          Water Pump = OFF       Open cct                            12v                  
Hardware - NORMAL, Threshold >45deg  Engine running, Ign ON, Water 30deg   Water Pump = ON        700ohms                            0.055V        

    Off is open, On is switching to earth..   I don't know your volt meter, but you would be better to simply use a test lamp or the volt meter continuity beeper.. most useful is actually a test lamp...
   Are you switching the relay to earth?? Coil side of the relay should be 12 volts and the ecu switches the relay to earth??  

  This strategy is not a pwm based output, it is a switched output.. off  is effectively 0 duty cycle, (that is why 12v on the output) and on is effectively 100% duty cycle..  you don't use PWM to switch a relay.   

Quote 0 0
Hi there, and thanks for another prompt response. That's much appreciated.

To deal with your last point. I understood from the Pectel description of these outputs that they are in fact PWM Outputs. That's what was behind my earlier "Can the frequency and duty cycle be altered?" question.  I used an output like this on the MoTeC to switch relays - not ideal admittedly - by increasing duty cycle to 100% such that the output was a full 12V - which switched the relay on.  As you point out my "0" duty cycle lead to a nil output and switched the relay off.

I assume from your point that this is what we're doing here - although it seems the frequency/duty cycle parameters applied to this output are invisible to me because I don't know where to look for them. My fault I know as I'm still unfamiliar with Pectel.    

But to get back to this problem....

I concur that the ECU output from Pin 6 is Earth when "ON". I've now tested with a lamp as you suggested and yes, this confirms it.  When the ignition is ON there is a nil condition. When the engine is running yes the earth appears on Pin6. This now activates the relay which now activates the water pump. The status shows as ON. However, this Pin 6 output IS IRRESPECTIVE OF ENGINE TEMPERATURE, THRESHOLDS OR ANY OF THE OTHER PARAMETERS i tried altering in the software. (I changed the service time to 10 as you suggested by the way).  So, the bottom line is that the parameter changes still have no effect. i.e. It will not enable me to have the pump turn on at a specific temperature.  

Another curious feature is that when I switch the engine off and ignition left ON the pump stops - irrespective of "Run On" time parameter changes.  Instead, when the Ignition is switched OFF the pump runs, so that it must be getting an earth from the ECU Pin6.

All suggestions welcome !  


Quote 0 0
Can somebody PLEASE come back to me on this problem. Do you think this is an SQ6 Hardware problem or a Software Problem (A Bug?). 
Quote 0 0
I'm on raid rally test.. Send me your dataset.
Quote 0 0

Hi.. finally got some working internet...

  OK firstly lets answer your PWM questions…   ALL Pectel outputs are PWM, this means that the outputs can be Pulse Width Modulated, (such as VVT, Wastegate control etc) OR Switched (such as Fuel pumps, coolant fans, or in your case On-Off water pump control). It depends on the strategy that you select. (there are also H-Bridges but let’s keep it to basics)   The strategy that you have chosen is a SWITCHED output, On, or Off. There is no change of frequency or duty required for a on/off output.  You are using a relay, so in this case you can only switch it. IF you were using a water pump with a variable speed input such as a BMW one, then you would use a different strategy, I usually use AuxPWM 1 or 2.  This allows you different pump speeds per whatever you choose for you X and Y axis. Usually coolant temp and RPM or Coolant temp and throttle or MAP (engine load). Anyway, that is not what you are trying to or can achieve so let’s leave it at that. 

  Just to correct you there also.. The output at 100% on a Pectel OR a motec is Not 12 volts. This is where you are getting things confused..    The outputs switch to earth!! There is no 12Volts output. You can see 12 volts with a multi-meter but this is just because of the electronics.  This voltage has NO potential, ie it cannot provide ANY current.    PWM or Switched output works by switching whatever you are driving to EARTH, not by providing a voltage. Whatever you are driving being a Boost control valve, Variable cam valve, fuel pump relay or coolant pump relay, it is switching to ground to make a current flow.  OFF no flow, ON full current.   In the case of PWM, higher duty cycle, more current flow. But in your case, you are simply switching.  By inverting the output you are not changing it to a voltage output, you are simply changing it from “Normally Off” to “Normally ON”.    (There are exceptions of some devices requiring a “high side” driver, but these are rare and require an external pull-up resistor) Pectel or motec does not have high side PWM drivers..


             OK, so to be clear…  

1.       You connect the lamp to Pin 6 and to 12 volts supply..   

2.       You start the engine, the lamp is ON when you first start the engine. The Water-Pump-On channel  reads ON at this point, so it is within the table parameters..  ie where is the temperature in relation to the set point, below or above..   Please use the parameters below.

3.       These parameters should work…



If it is not working, forget the output, what is the Channel Water_Pump_On reading in the case of when you change the parameters.. ie if the engine is running, the water temp is 55  with the above settings is the pump status ON?? And if it is 45 is the pump status OFF??  Please always refer to the relevant channel to see exactly what the ecu command is. 



Your last statement, again what does the Water_Pump_On channel read?  IF it says on, and the pump is off, what is your Base setup in Hardware config, if it is inverted then the pump will be off when the channel is ON.  (see above about Output inverting)

            When you switch the ignition OFF is the pump relay and pump still powered on and is the ecu powered down??   IF you power down the ECU and still have 12 volts at the pump relay (and pump) then of course the pump will run as the ECU is powered down and all the outputs will default to being switched to ground as the drivers have no voltage to hold them open.   The ecu must always stayed powered when any outputs/injectors/ignition are powered.  It is normal to use an engine kill switch for the ecu and to have the outputs configured in a way that they are powered down before, or at the same time as the ecu. Never switch an engine off by powering down the ecu, either use a Kill switch function on the ecu or power off the Ignition and injectors together or minimum the injectors.  If you power off the ignition alone, as the engine runs down it will still inject fuel into the engine.


Please send me your current calibration that will be a good start [redface])



Quote 1 0
ahhh, it won't allow clips..  Just send me your calibration please..     and I don't know what the blue face is at the end..haha.
Quote 0 0
Excellent!  Thanks for this. This is the best explanation I've ever seen describing PWM outputs. And you are right I was never confident what "Invert" meant ! I have a few questions but I'll just focus on the current problem first, because that's what's pressing now....

I can't read your parameters attachment, but here's the config file anyway. (Oh lord, seems i can't attach the cds file because it's the wrong file type, so I've attached a screen dump instead). If you let me have your eMail address I could send direct ? (Mine is gccole23@gmail.com)

I should add that I've adjusted the numbers many times to see what happens when the water temp rises above or falls below the set threshold. same with run-on. 

Can't thank you too much for the time you're spending on this. It's much appreciated.  
Quote 0 0